Wednesday, July 27, 2005

Mail Bag

A couple of questions rolled in overnight:

  • What do y'all think about Portland Monthly Magazine? Do you think about it? Nicely packaged, tons of ads - anyone ever written for it? What was that experience like?

  • Today's the last day of the July TV ratings period with a couple of surprises - KGW is in a virtual tie w/KPTV in the morning (pre-7am), is nearly tied by Channel 2 at 6:30pm (big surprise), and is beaten by Channel 12 in late night news (I know - not head to head). Is the big 8 slipping or is it just the summer? A year ago they were #1 with a bullet. What's their next move?

-- pdxmediawatch at --


Anonymous 12er said...

For those of us who work at KPTV, this is a big deal. We know you will say "no one cares about the July book," but we also know that this is the first time ever KPTV has beaten KGW in late night, at least in recent history. And we've beaten them continuously for the last month, maybe two.
KGW does a solid job. They are respected in the community. I guess it's just time to accept that KPTV is a major player now too.

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 8:39:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Portland Monthly? Not a factor.

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 8:47:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

re: kgw vs kptv in the a.m.

i've noticed kptv's numbers are WAY down the past few i'm surprised to hear that the two stations are in a dead heat. (did they have really strong numbers at the beginning of July?) i was curious if anyone had any insight as to why 12's morning numbers had been so low lately.

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 8:57:00 AM  
Anonymous bill mcdonald said...

I had a fun experience with the people at Portland Monthly when they did a piece about my comedy-writing “career.” The picture featured me playing tennis in a suit and tie. My only complaint was the B.S. title calling me Leno’s favorite joke writer. (As if.) That could have been on one of the magazine’s endless lists: “100 of the Best Ways to Pull A Hype Muscle!” Of course there are nights, such as last night, when my joke gets a good response, but Leno’s favorite writer? Sure, that’s why I’m a freelancer in Portland. (Last night’s joke: You’ve all heard the expression, “It’s so hard to find good help these days.” Or as Jude Law puts it: “It’s hard. Where’s the help?”)

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 9:25:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

12's morning numbers are pretty much the same as last July. Summer tends to be a bit softer for that show. At last check, they were essentially tied for number one at 5am, number two at 6am, and tied for number one from 7-9am. Not bad, but not as great as May. They were number one across the board then, and it was head-to-head.

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 9:34:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Portland Monthly has promise, but has a looooong way to go. It's too bad they lost editor Russ Rymer to Mother Jones. He's the real thing, a world-class magazine writer and editor.

I disagree in principle with anonymous @ 8:47. They have a very different journalistic mission than a daily or TV station. I agree they're not yet a factor, but I think they could be.

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 9:35:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

From a consumer point of view, who can afford to read Portland Monthly? I wonder how their demographics play out ...

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 10:11:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

In the last 3 months I switched my morning 6:15 - 7:45 tv from 12 to 8 becuase there is too much police blotter and not enough other news. The only thing worth watching on 12 is Tony and Andy, and the heli-live shots.

Suggestion to 8: Bring on Sonnier in the morning.

Suggestion to 12: Go back to the funny friendly format. Who wants to start each day with 2 hours of meth, murder and molestation.

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 10:25:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's July. KGW is a ghost town, as is the rest of Portland. Viewership drops like a rock in the summer here.

There's no sense of panic over July numbers at KGW. If NBC stumbles again in the fall, and if the news numbers are weak at the start of November book, then you'll start to see some furrowed brows at the Big 8.

The 10 pm vs. 11 pm thing is and will always be apples and oranges. At 10, KPTV is competing against network prime time programming -- and it will be an impressive feat if they can beat 3 networks with real shows on, not the dregs of summer reality programming. At 11, KGW, KOIN, and KATU are competing against each other and the power button on the remote control.

When you're comparing across time slots like KPTV is trying to do, you're better off comparing shares, not households. Now, I haven't seen July cumes, so I'm curious -- what's the share difference between KPTV's 10 and KGW's 11?

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 10:53:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nobody does care about July, ask any advertiser. Nobody cares because nobody watches t.v. And 12 has beaten 8 before in late night in the summer. NBC has crap reruns. Wait till November and let's see what happnes.

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 10:55:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Dickhead Larry" -- hmm. Might this herald the return of Douchebag Sal? If so, get over yourself already. Stop subjecting us to your senseless rants. Move on.

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 11:07:00 AM  
Blogger PDXMediaWatcher said...

From the numbers I saw (day 17 of the 20 M-F days of the book)KPTV had a 14 share at 10p, KGW had a 15 share at 11pm.

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 11:09:00 AM  
Blogger PDXMediaWatcher said...

Which leads to another question... which stations post their numbers?

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 11:11:00 AM  
Blogger douchebag sal said...

dickhead larry, douchebag sal, it does not matter:

you are an arrogant prick, your rants are just as senseless, and if you don't like it, well too fucking bad, this is a free site that you are a squatter on. go pay for your own blog system and then you'll have a leg to stand on

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 11:12:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

no wonder you idiots can't peddle inventory effectivly:

your spending all your time worrying about what people think and have to say and then really getting in a tizzy when it hits too close to home

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 11:17:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yes, comparing KPTV to KGW 10 vs. 11 is apples and oranges. Very different competition and each has their unique problems. KPTV has to hold an audience an entire hour, and they're up against prime time programming.. but more people are watching at that time and during the summer reruns, they have a real chance to make a dent.

KGW is up against other newscasts, is on later, and fewer people are watching at that time period. But during the fall, they'll have huge lead in numbers with first run NBC prime programming.

Here's the only reason KPTV beating KGW is a big deal. Because to my knowledge it's never happened before and this will make two months in a row that's happened. Those that say it has, prove me wrong.. show me the ratings. KPTV did beat KGW in demos during the summer two years ago.. but not raw numbers.

You can compare share, but ratings will tell you how many people are watching. So while KGW may beat KPTV in share.. there are actually more people watching KPTV which is more important, IMO. No one sells shares, or households for that matter. It's all about the demo.

Now, there is no way KPTV will be able to do this in the fall. Not a chance. Network programming is just too strong. But I'd feel pretty good about the numbers if I was working in Beaverton. (and if KPTV does prove me wrong and beats KGW in the fall, this will be huge and there will be a new #1 news leader in town.) But it ain't gonna happen.

Enjoy it now KPTV... while you can.

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 11:21:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

so you want to spend your money on "mediums" that don't take themselves seriously. is that internet? or what? i'm curious.

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 11:42:00 AM  
Anonymous Rear View Mirror said...

Hey Sal (and the anons who are probably Sal):

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 11:42:00 AM  
Blogger douchebag sal said...

thats incredibly funny material

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 11:45:00 AM  
Anonymous rear view mirror said...

Oops - time for sterner stuff

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 11:47:00 AM  
Blogger douchebag sal said...

wow, oh so savvy media insight and psychiatric evaluations all in one. thats really clever

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 11:49:00 AM  
Anonymous rear view mirror said...

Good Sal, good!

The ability to laugh at oneself is a step toward healing.

Next thing you know, civility might break out...

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 11:50:00 AM  
Blogger PDXMediaWatcher said...

Hey Sal. Enough. You've made your point. You think this site is pointless. Move on. You must be wasting your time over and over as much as you are wasting my time deleting your points. You've created a site for your thoughts - why not embrace it and invite folks who share your feelings to post along with you. There - free advertising.

PMI or YPC - your personal censor

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 11:51:00 AM  
Anonymous rear view mirror said...

... and will also be of vaulable assistance in finding alternative modifiers.

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 11:52:00 AM  
Anonymous rear view mirror said...

Or valuable...

(See above re: laughing at oneself...)

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 11:53:00 AM  
Blogger douchebag sal said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 11:54:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 11:54:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Back to the topic at hand. No matter what kind of numbers KPTV pulls advertisers stay away because of the content on its newscasts. Who wants to advertise after another "child molester of the day" segment ? Don't believe me... ask Theresa Burgess.

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 12:48:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

actually local sales are great. national sales are in the pits.

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 12:49:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Back to the topic at hand. No matter what kind of numbers KPTV pulls advertisers stay away because of the content on its newscasts. Who wants to advertise after another "child molester of the day" segment ? Don't believe me... ask Theresa Burgess."

If you knew a quarter as much as you think you know you'd be dangerous. But that's just typical of the people who have to come up with something to knock us. First you ignored us because you said we weren't your competition. Now that we're beating you, you knock the content. Even though you show the same stories, TWO DAYS LATER!!!!

Now as for your point, first, if you haven't noticed, the 10 O Clock news is sold out. Virtually no spots availiable to sell through Sep. 2nd the problems with KPTV/KPDX have quite a bit to do with the UPN side. And finally, it's Teresa, not Theresa.

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 12:58:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Even I have a hard time with the notion most advertisers would say.. yeah KPTV has almost double the viewers as KATU.. but nah.. don't like all that crime coverage. Let's buy KATU.

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 1:14:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why is no one talking about Portland Monthly? Everyone's so damned caught up with TV number here. Perhaps start a new thread for PM?

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 1:21:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

you suck, sal. go away.

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 1:28:00 PM  
Anonymous marty hackle said...

>actually local sales are great. national sales are in the pits

precisely, local advertisers don't know any better
national reps know what a second-rate market you have here in portland (thats why they are national reps)

why waste money reaching this dreadful market? i guess they don't!

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 1:45:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

touche marty!

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 1:47:00 PM  
Anonymous MarkDaMan said...

When you come across something here that is off topic, just ignore it and post something relevant to the discussion.

I like the Portland Monthly; I bought my first copy, the best of Portland, this last weekend. There is a little too many advertisements and their stories could be better developed, but the pictures are fantastic and the magazine almost feels, well, elegant. I guess I will see what the future issues are like.

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 1:49:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

>I guess I will see what the future issues are like.

future issues could be a problem

trade-out might furnish your home and put food in your stomach, but to the people you are in debt up to your eyeballs it means squat

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 1:54:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

the above poster is correct though portland is having a tough time with national sales... because i think of the perception that our economy is still depressed and consumers aren't buying.

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 2:03:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

all those ad pages in PM aren't trades. they're selling space like crazy. already profitable, i hear.

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 2:16:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

KGW needs to get Laural out of that Hillary suit. It's been years! Maybe one night it will walk off the set on its own.

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 2:17:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ha! That's like that one shiny black blouse Julia Radlick wears on 4 out of five mornings, and likely afternoons as well, that woman works the longest shifts I have ever heard of. Maybe if K2's numbers are up, they can spring for an additional wardrobe change.

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 2:55:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wonder if some kind soul could explain to me how local ratings are determined? I have no it like those Nielsen boxes? Along those lines, how much of a program does someone have to watch before the show gets credit for them watching? By that I mean if I'm watching FOX at 9pm, and then watch the first 10 minutes of the KPTV newscast at 10, does the station get credit for me watching for the whole newscast? I hear all this talk about ratings and numbers, but have no clue how they are actually compiled. Thanks.

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 3:24:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Portland Monthly is for Pearl District/Lake Oswego overly-tanned, too-much-disposible-income, SUV-driving, get-on-my-nerves people who are trying tohave turn(ed) Portland into Southern California.
They are impossible to deal with, in addition. The magazine makes great recycling.

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 3:28:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i'll give your ratings question a shot. basically about 460 homes throughout the portland metro area have boxes which monitor which families are watching a particular channel at which times. I know that sounds like a small sample, but statistics actually say adding a thousand more won't sigificantly change the results. i don't know, i'm bad in math.. but most polls for instance are always around 400 for a reason.

Ok.. so every night, neilsen tabulates all the sets that were turned on and what they were tuned into and in the mornings, sends out an excel file that are called the "overnights." or overnight ratings.

on that sheet are the channels, the shows, the time periods (in 15 minute increments) along with the ratings (household numbers) that show and increment received along with the share of each. Think of a share as a slice of pie. it has nothing really to do with how many people watched a show, but rather, of all the sets turned on at that time, what percentage of sets were tuned to a particular show. so for instance in the morning when few people are watching, you could have a 2 rating, but a 30 percent share. where as at 9pm when many people are watching, a 2 ratings would only be maybe a 5 percent share.

ok.. a rating point translates to a specific number of people in Portland.. I think a bit over 10K people. So if a show gets a 10 rating, Nielsen extrapolates that about 100K households were watching.

In every market, a ratings point means a different number of people. In LA for instance one rating point is probably about 100K households.. because the market is so much bigger.

OK as for your question.. and this I'm a bit unclear about.. but i think if you watch a channel for five minute within a 15 minute increment, that station gets credit for that 15 minutes.. but not the whole hour. so if you (or more accurately, someone with a tv box) watches kptv from 10 to 10:10.. they get your vote (so to speak) for that 15 block.. but not for the whole hour. then at the end of the hour.. all the 15 minute quarter hours are averaged into one final figure which tells what rating the show received. now you begin to understand why tv news has so many teases and why weather appears so late.. and so on. If a show gets a great rating in the first ten minutes giving you every thing you want to see and doesn't get you to stick around.. that show will fail miserably.. no question.

what no one ever explained to me is what happens if you watch 5 minutes of one show and 5 minutes of another and 5 minutes of another.. do three shows get your vote? I don't know.

now in addition to the overnight household ratings, selected viewers are also asked to fill out diaries. listing the shows they watch at what time. this gives advertisers more information than just raw numbers, but actually tells them who watches certain shows as in income, age, sex, etc. and that is the key number for stations to sell.. called demos. but because they're not computerized they take about a month after the ratings period ends to come out. right now in bigger markets nielsen is using something called people meters, which does the overnights, and diaries all in one for immediate demo information. eventually they will be in all major markets including portland and that's when tv gets really interesting because so called sweeps won't matter anymore. we'll be judged every night not just 4 months a year.

hope that helps.. it's a really weird system and who knows if it's accurate or not. but it's all we got.

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 3:45:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm not a Portland Monthly fan. And it really has nothing to do with the content -- it is all about the attitude portrayed by staff. Ever read their writer's guidelines? Incredibly arrogant. I heard Ted K. speak once at a panel, and he said something about how they would rather have writers that weren't long-time Portlanders writing for them. He said something about how if you were a recent transplant, you were more likely to see your byline in PM.

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 3:59:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Interesting stuff about the ratings--thanks for the explanation.

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 4:22:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

For anon 3:45:

Yes, it is theoretically possible for three stations to get credit for the same 15 minute block.

Also (I believe) if you watch one program and record another, both shows are tabulated...even if you never watch the tape...

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 4:25:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

All you have to do is receive a cumulative 5 minutes of viewing time in a quarter hour, and you receive credit for a viewer. It can be 2 minutes here, and 3 minutes there.. say if you've been channel surfing...

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 4:40:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I like Portland Monthly so far. They do homework. It's unpretentiously upscale.

Basic problem: It's Westside Portand Monthly. Focus a bit more on Pal's Shanty.

Thank you.

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 7:35:00 PM  
Anonymous Plastic Hallway said...

The July ghost town theory holds weight but if people are banking on NBC to roar back this fall it was be disappointing. Frankly, all things being equal, KGW's 11pm lead is impressive given that it's lead-ins are staggering. November is going to be a rough book, for everyone. I've got to say for all the crap KPTV puts on the air their desk is doing a good job feeding the sausage machine.

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 9:35:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey Any@2:55,

Lay off Julia, she wears brown too!

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 9:48:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I HATE Portland Monthly. Overly-pretentious, non-content, colorful glossy classifieds mag. That's all it is. Plus, the inside back cover page always SUCKS. It's supposed to be clever. It's not. The fact that their "writers" are mostly transplants with no pulse on the city is evident.

But then again, I am not a crusty 80-year-old millionaire living in the Pearl spending my nights hitting on gold-digging skanky young women at Blue Hour or Oba and my days tooling about town in my Jag searching for my next million dollar estate in the West Hills (PM should be renamed Barbara Sue Seal magazine). I think that is their target audience, so perhaps it is fitting that I can't relate to their...whatever it is they are trying to say and do and be.

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 10:29:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If July mattered KGW would not have let its major anchors take vacations during the book.

They had lots of fill ins and their numbers held solid.

Get to a real ratings book and then numbers will matter.

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 10:53:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

SOMEone from this board please inform Neilsen.. KGW gave vacations during the July book. Therefore, it doesn't matter. thanks!

Thursday, July 28, 2005 1:54:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

No vacation blackouts, no promotion or marketing, no sweeps pieces...yes! July book matters a LOT!

Thursday, July 28, 2005 3:22:00 AM  
Anonymous 12er said...

I think you're losing sight of the whole point here. It doesn't matter if July is an important book or not. What matters is that for the first time, KGW is slipping. A lot.
It could be April, it could be March, it could be September for all I care. What matters is that for two months straight, they haven't been number one. Someone in that building ought to be worried, and I'd bet my lunch they are.

Thursday, July 28, 2005 8:57:00 AM  
Anonymous Viewer said...

From my point of view, KGW news has been drifting toward the KPTV style of shock tv. Because of this, I find that I have far less incentive to watch it, and I'm probably not the only one.

If KGW wants to go the KPTV route, I think they will continue to drop. You see, they are fishing for the KPTV leftovers, but the fans of fear-based pseudo-journalism already got their fill at 10.

Thursday, July 28, 2005 9:31:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What KGW should fear is this:

Sweeps pieces don't win books. Special reports don't win books. Promotional tie-ins don't win books.

You make your November ratings by building, or keeping, viewership in August, September, and October. It will translate in November. December and January translate to February.

Another thing to watch for is this: What station are people watching or tune to when something big happens? That is not surfing or promotions. That is straight eyeballs. I think that is where you judge how well you are doing.

Thursday, July 28, 2005 10:31:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just a question ???

If KPTV sells out all its ads, and ratings are so good, why did the GM get blown out ?

Things like that don't happen when all is well.

Thursday, July 28, 2005 1:17:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

portland monthly? what is that?

Thursday, July 28, 2005 2:21:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

From my point of view, KGW news has been drifting toward the KPTV style of shock tv. Because of this, I find that I have far less incentive to watch it, and I'm probably not the only one.

Same thing CNN is doing--trying to imitate FOXNews, and losing viewers in the process.

Thursday, July 28, 2005 2:34:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

CNN's international news (mid morning here) and ridding itself of the pissing contests is hardly imitating Fox. The only way it could imitate Fox is if it used the White House talking points as its news wire.
CNN is doing just the OPPOSITE. Maybe you haven't seem them lately.

Thursday, July 28, 2005 4:32:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey, I'm 54...I live in the Pearl and I drive a BMW 7-series (black with tan leather)so knock off all the stereotypes. We are a diverse community. Are you angry that none of the ladies at Oba or Bluehour pays attention to you, or are you a woman who was scorned by patrons due to less than on-air ready looks.

By the way after a hard day at the bank tower financing more people moving into the Pearl, and a couple cocktails at a trendy bar, I watch KATU. I am not a nielsen family, but you could hook up my $7,000 plasma anytime.

Thursday, July 28, 2005 6:00:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Give credit to those who made gains. November will be a whole new game. KGW will keep on keeping on. KATU will shake it up with some new people. ANd Koin will just try to not sink further.

Good job KPTV. Good Job anyone who made gains.

If we base everything on numbers you cant throw out july like an exibition season in football.

hey i have to go to bed i have a live shot in the AM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thursday, July 28, 2005 11:07:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Every day matters. Otherwise they are wasting my time sending the daily numbers each day. but statistics are goofy.. so ask people you meet .. i think that most folks will tell you they watch KGW and KATU. Unscientific poll, much like the neilsens.

love you all in the PDX media in a weird sense. Lets keep the posts clean and dont make fun or insult anyone.. not needed to get your point across.

Thursday, July 28, 2005 11:12:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Every day matters. Otherwise they are wasting my time sending the daily numbers each day. but statistics are goofy.. so ask people you meet .. i think that most folks will tell you they watch KGW and KATU. Unscientific poll, much like the neilsens.

love you all in the PDX media in a weird sense. Lets keep the posts clean and dont make fun or insult anyone.. not needed to get your point across.

Thursday, July 28, 2005 11:12:00 PM  
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