Monday, September 12, 2005

Oregonian HD

While I create the new site, let's speculate (or add real insider insight) on how different the Oregonian and Oregon Live will be this time next week.

60 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Certianly Oregonlive.com will be better, because it can't get much worse. Far and away the worst newspaper website I have ever visited.

Even The Daily News (www.tdn.com) of Longview, WA does a better job online than The O.

Monday, September 12, 2005 12:18:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oregonlive is run from a remote office out of state (and probally other papers use it too).

I just hope they send the red and blue 3D glasses so everyone can enjoy the HD.

Why HD? That's for TV! The O should stop trying to be something it's not

Monday, September 12, 2005 3:31:00 PM  
Blogger Betsy said...

Well - here's hoping that the *new* look & feel in the paper eliminates Living front page features like the one we saw last Saturday (Bobby Henderson's Flying Spaghetti Monster becomes an Internet hit.)

I'm not down on noodly appendages - in fact, I did a quick & dirty blog post about it last week. BUT the story certainly wasn't worth a front page multi-column inch spread with at least an inch of white space around the text, accompanied by an enormous graphic that took up most of the space above the fold, was it?

Especially since it's way stale, to boot - it'd been making the rounds for at least the last six months or so online (I mistakenly assumed I was the last one to the party...)

And in the wake of Katrina, when the Saturday Living section is already designated for religion/faith stories (not to mention the day before 9/11 rememberances) - they couldn't find anything else local and/or relevant to feature instead???

Monday, September 12, 2005 4:03:00 PM  
Blogger Betsy said...

And now that I've been critical, let me throw a bouquet.

If we can expect more packages like the Biffle feature in Sports, I'm all for it. I thought it was really well done - especially the graphics-heavy page breaking down NASCAR's race for the chase.

Monday, September 12, 2005 4:43:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Let's see...
"High Definition" meands cramming 720 or 1080 lines of pixels onto the TV screen.
So, the O must be planning to start printing in a 2 point font!

That'll make it super sharp resolution!

Actually, all the rumors are about short short stories, ala USA Today.
How briefer, more superficial storytelling brings subjects into "higher definition" is beyond me.

Monday, September 12, 2005 8:33:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I bet they'll add a column on the left-hand side of page one, telling you where you can find certain articles inside the paper, with some name like 'NewsFinder.' I also think it might also mean they will also change the look of the titles of the sections (Business, Sports, Metro, etc.), to use a new font and/or color scheme.

They'll can it a few months later with a little note that says "to our readers - we have decided to drop the 'NewsFinder' feature. You can continue to find articles in the Oregonian by flipping through the pages and looking at all the ads."

Tuesday, September 13, 2005 12:43:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Maybe they'll finally have someone who writes about TV, radio and other media. Their lack of coverage is curious, at best.

Tuesday, September 13, 2005 7:14:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I understand that the arts and living sections are being combined into one section.

Also, TV critic Peter Carlin is back.

Tuesday, September 13, 2005 7:51:00 AM  
Blogger C said...

Ahh there are several other papers - I think both Advance / Newhouse and others - which use the same template software for their web design. They're all equally awful and difficult to navigate.

So I doubt there is much coordination between the two.

Plug - http://pdxartwork.blogspot.com/

Tuesday, September 13, 2005 9:04:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How about archives going back more than 14 days on the website? That's just pathetic.

Tuesday, September 13, 2005 9:42:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Schulberg is looking for a job.

Tuesday, September 13, 2005 9:54:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

you are all soon going to be looking for a job judging by the pathetic performances we the viewing public are subjected to night after night

Tuesday, September 13, 2005 1:36:00 PM  
Anonymous gnossos said...

Hey 1:36:01 how about offering something constructive for a change? A question or comment germane to the subject would be useful. Otherwise, go back under your bridge and read a book or something instead of wandering in the vast wasteland.

Tuesday, September 13, 2005 1:46:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"night after night" ... Yep, TV news and TV in general is so awful that he can't stop watching ....

Tuesday, September 13, 2005 2:24:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Peter Ameless Carlin is back?
Back from another Hollywood junket?

He has no interest in anything as trivial as LOCAL television.

Tuesday, September 13, 2005 9:21:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ditto to 9:21 on Carlin. That guy sems to have no interest in his beat. He was never very good now he writes like he's burned out. Yes, Pete was good in his day but I think what the O needs is someone who thinks deeper and displays some curiosity and edge. Make Carlin go bye bye.

Tuesday, September 13, 2005 9:56:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Living Section is a wasteland and A&E seems to have run out of steam.

Wednesday, September 14, 2005 7:40:00 AM  
Blogger activist kaza said...

What new site, "insider"? You're revamping to keep up with competish (I recommend going widescreen to take on the "HD" OregonDead)?

Not to change subjects, but I wonder what other PDX media insiders make of former journo Rick Metsger's reported contemplation of a run for Governor? I've put forward a bit of analysis over at kazablog. Come & pick it apart!

Wednesday, September 14, 2005 1:13:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The a&e just isn't relevant anymore. Lousy stories that are compounded by lousy covers. If they "sell" one more cover to the movies, i will shit myself. They used to have good content. Now these pretend festivals-(can you say TBA?) get their own section. Watching people crap on themselves is hardly art.

They are going the road that a lot of people around here go....forget about the basics. Street repair,news,police,parks......
they follow a path that a lot of portlanders do, aspire to bigger city status. Ya know what is funny about that is, you will very rarely find a native talk that way. Not a native who moved here 25 years ago, but born here........anyway back to the O.

The business section is a joke.
Sports have not been the same since Steve Duin moved on.
Metro is full of young idiot's with a mandate to "hunt down and kill" even if it is questionable and then do not report both sides of a story. Headlines sell.....

Wednesday, September 14, 2005 4:31:00 PM  
Anonymous education professional said...

This is completely off topic, but I couldn't figure out how to email our host and I thought this was worth pointing out.

Maybe I misheard it, but this evening on K2's 6:30 newscast, it sure sounded like Deb Knapp introduced the story about PGE by saying, local ratepayers might get "gypped" again...

The term "gypped" is a pejorative reference to gypsies. It's basically the equivalent of using the "N" word to describe the African American victims of Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans and the Gulf Coast.

Though gypsies are an extremely small minority in the Northwest and North America in general, they are still a distinct culture and people who have been oppressed and ostracized throughout much of European and North American history.

Is it okay for members of the media to knowingly or unknowingly continue to perpetuate a racially insensitive and offensive stereotype because gypsies live on the fringes of most American communities? Is ignorance of the racial and prejudicial based origin of the word an excuse? How many viewers are potentially influenced by such comments who then adopt the use of the offensive language in their own vocabularies and unknowingly continue to perpetuate ignorance?

If I misheard the intro, then clearly everthing I've stated above is moot.

Wednesday, September 14, 2005 8:36:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The truth is this:

The Sunday is really what's going to change. Gone will be all the features sections - they'll get he most redesigning. New sections and a new design theme. All sections will be affected that way.

Wednesday, September 14, 2005 8:45:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey, anonymous 4:31 big mouth:

The O's A&E "sells(s)" its cover to movies?

Really?

I happen to have a full stack of this year's A&E's beside me.

It's mid-September.

How many movie covers has A&E run this year? Hmmm?

Dunno, do you?

The Portland Int'l Film Fest
A Summer Movie Round Up
"Sin City"
"Cinderella Man"
"Charlie and The Chocolate Factory"
"The Brothers Grimm"

and...that's it.

Six in 9.5 months.

Keep talking out your ass.

Wednesday, September 14, 2005 9:13:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So A&E has gone down the tubes. I say the O's InPortland section on Thursdays is well done and about the only relevant local news and information they provide. Sure, some of it's junk, but it's much closer to what the Trib does than anything else, and to me that's a good thing.

Wednesday, September 14, 2005 10:30:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

look, the problem at the oregonian is at the editor level. look at who fills the highest ranks.

of sandy rowe and the four other people in the top editor jobs: only one was ever a real reporter. the rest of them are bureaucrats who have honed their political skills so they could move up the food chain, just like corporate types at any other big business.

many of the team leaders and assistants, i.e. mid-level managers, were lousy reporters. lots of them are asskissers. they manage up and kick down. they give sandy rowe what she wants. that is not the same thing as putting out a good newspaper.

no one has a clear vision of what the o could or should be. management lives in fear of offending a few readers publishing an edgy photo or story with real attitude. you can't make everyone happy. you need to cop an attitude and go with it. especially when your core customers are dying off and 20-30 years olds aren't refilling the ranks.

no vision + no balls = a crappy paper that tries to get by with a glossy marketing makeover. high definition? high concept is more like it.

Wednesday, September 14, 2005 11:01:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You can dress a pig in a tux -- but it is still a pig.

You can call it "HogTronix" -- but it still smells like a pig farm ...

Thursday, September 15, 2005 3:10:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

oh great, another tax proposed to help "the kids" for schools.

i'm sure you lowlife maggot news directors will once again direct that any content on newscasts related to the propopsed regional tax will be as biased as it was for the multco tax a few years ago.

for example, before the multco tax was passed, despite the countless "stories" (i use stories rather loosely, they were really shill pieces for the tax-ALL CHANNELS, 2, 6, 8, 12) not one peep from anyone about the fact that the tax was retro-active AND that employers were not equipped to withold the tax (so most people unwittingly put themselves in the hole right from the start)

but amazingly, the very day after the tax passed, those facts regarding the retro-active nature of the tax and that employers aren't equipped to withold, were included in stories about the tax.

i suspected that the local channels were trying to help get the tax passed; the omission of important facts by the local news that people had a right to know so that an informed decision could be made proves that the local channels indeed did utilize bias to get the tax passed.

i'm sure the same disgusting display of bias will be a part of reporting on the new proposed regional tax............

Thursday, September 15, 2005 3:57:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

>Maybe I misheard it, but this evening on K2's 6:30 newscast, it sure sounded like Deb Knapp introduced the story about PGE by saying, local ratepayers might get "gypped" again...


what else would you expect from the minor leagues of broadcasting

Thursday, September 15, 2005 3:59:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Gypped" is believed to be derived from "gypsy" but there is no undisputed linage that I am aware of.

If you want to be offended, go ahead. If I was a gypsy, I might be offended. The better course is to say "cheated" ot ripped off." But that could get you sued. So go bash a gypsy. It's safer.

Thursday, September 15, 2005 8:45:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

BTW, 3:57, what's the point of calling someone a lowlife maggot? Name calling doesn't promote a healthy and thoughtful discussion of local media, does it, Mr. Stupid Butthole Stinkyhead?

Thursday, September 15, 2005 8:50:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

BTW, 3:57, what's the point of calling someone a lowlife maggot? Name calling doesn't promote a healthy and thoughtful discussion of local media, does it, Mr. Stupid Butthole Stinkyhead?

Thursday, September 15, 2005 8:50:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ever notice only right-wingers use the term "low-life maggot?" why do you think that is? perhaps leftover drill-instructor conciousness?

Friday, September 16, 2005 7:11:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I know there were a lot of people in my newsroom who were personally opposed to the Mult. Cty. tax. Guess what? They kept their opinions out of their reports the way good journalists do. We had people on both sides of the issue screaming about the pros and cons. We don't have an agenda on either side, we just report the news.

Friday, September 16, 2005 9:01:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

probably opposed to it only cuz they had to pay it.

Friday, September 16, 2005 11:02:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

gyp also gip ( P ) Pronunciation Key (jp) Slang
tr.v. gypped, also gipped gyp·ping, gip·ping gyps, gips
To deprive (another) of something by fraud; cheat or swindle.

n.
A fraud or swindle.
One who defrauds; a swindler.


Does anyone really think this is on par with the N-word? get out of here.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Probably short for Gypsy.]

Friday, September 16, 2005 6:00:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Lars Agrees that Lane City Planners "Should be Killed"

As you rebuild the site, find a way to explain how any other Portland media including the new newspaper are any different from this nazi you all harbor among yourselves and shield with deliberate looking away and pretending not to see.

Nobody wants to "get involved" maybe hoping he will go away. But instead he gets worse and can claim all his media colleagues support him and prove it because all of them THIS MEANS YOU never file a complaint or declare him below the standard at their own work.

Lars has raged about and threatened violence at bicycle riders and urged his listeners to share his hot hate when they see a bike rider while driving "to teach them a lesson." This has been going on for months. He started out trying to get people to hate Potter by making a hate story out of no story about the monthly Critical Mass ride that Potter rode with and how it "destroyed the traffic and shopping at downtown stores when people can't drive around the city freely" in their SUV.

Lars has average over three hours a week telling everyone HATE BIKE RIDERS and HATE BIKE LANE SPENDING for the last 8 months and in that time a new record high number of bicycle riders have been killed by car drivers. And the story of the New Record Death Toll started airing around August and then Lars shuts up about it and lays low.

Why not have some so called reporter show a time line of all the bicycle hit-and-runs side by side with the hours and days lars already aired and can't take it back how drivers have to "show those jerks whose boss of the road"?

Probably nobody was paying any attention to what he said and no media outed him or wanted to police their own kind. Meanwhile Lars says all his media buddies THIS MEANS YOU love him and support his "free speech right" to hate hate hate out loud and push his mental illness listeners to hate hate hate. YOU media people love him. You support him. Let's hear it for the caring community relations of Portland media people.

Friday, September 16, 2005 6:14:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We love you. You are beautiful.

Friday, September 16, 2005 7:26:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"High-definition" is nothing more than an advertising slogan thought up by an outside ad agency. Even people at the O who are working on it don't understand what it means or what the relevance is. The whole thing is basically a glorified redesign.

Saturday, September 17, 2005 12:04:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To the Lars commenter above, I'd constructively suggest that most of the media people who read this board are solidly pro-First Amendment, and so, no, you're not likely to get a lot of enthusiasm here for an effort to muzzle anybody.

What I wonder about is why there is no organized effort on the part of people like you to at least document the things you don't like(I rarely listen--can't take the bile). It's pretty easy to put up a web site, like those run by critics of other opinionated hosts, with quotes and sound files, so the rantings are documented and on the record, rather than second-hand paraphrasings.

But remember this: the right of free speech is meaningless if we don't use it.

Saturday, September 17, 2005 1:35:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There should be a separate thread for a Lars discussion.

Saturday, September 17, 2005 6:09:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Lars is first and foremost a hard working guy who is trying to make as much money as he can in the world of talk radio.

He, like other conservative talk show hosts, need to be as controversial as possible. He is doing what he needs to do.

And he is good at it. If everyone could pull it off then people would know who Victoria Taft is.

She is a nice woman who has been in PDX radio for years but is under the radar screen.

Hate Lars if you must. Disagree with his politics, I do- but respect the son of a bitch for figuring out what he needs to do to make a buck in the low paying world of broadcast journalism.

Sunday, September 18, 2005 12:42:00 AM  
Anonymous rear view mirror said...

Meanwhile, back at the topic...

Thoughts over Sunday morning coffee...

Pretty to look at, not much to read. "A" section ok, but I can already tell this paper's going to spend a lot of time telling me where else to look for something...tease, tease, tease...

Metro section looked like it had been put together in a hurry. Relaively bereft of news.

O! : a mess. Check that stretch of "copy on the top, ads on the bottom." And at 26 pages, it just seemed physicially cumbersome.

Not sure this was worth all those billboards...

Sunday, September 18, 2005 8:05:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My first impression this morning?
Remember all those trendy one-or-two issue magazines that used to come out of New York? The ones so packed and layered and busy that they were nearly impossible to read? And then if you COULD decipher them, they weren't worth it anyway?
That's my first imppression of the same old people writing shorter (and not better/and less developed) wrapped in pages where the eyes does not fall in any one particular place, where attention wanders.
I put it down fast and went back to the NYT.

Sunday, September 18, 2005 9:32:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As someone who worked in the newspaper business for over 20 years, this morning's Oregonian is just depressing to me.
It's the same old thing we used to hear every few years from a higher-up after he'd been influenced by some consultant or "design expert."
Sub-heads. Indexes. Make a splash. Grab the reader's attention away from TV.
Content? Nah. Historical perspective? Are you kidding? That's SOOO last year.

Sunday, September 18, 2005 10:38:00 AM  
Anonymous rah said...

The three comments above sum it up for me.

After I finished the paper this morning, I felt insulted - the Oregonian obviously feels we are so stupid we need to be led around like a three-year old with big pictures and large fonts.

I'd subscribe to the NYT if they could find me - but they can't, so all I'm stuck with is the O.

Sunday, September 18, 2005 11:25:00 AM  
Anonymous gnossos said...

I used to look forward to the Sunday Oregonian. The previous couple postings have pretty much captured my sentiments so no point in getting into the details other than to say that, combined with the recent downgrading of my local suburban section (to a couple half columns), I think that I'll more often be cadging the neighbor's copy or the pieces laying around the coffee shops rather than bringing all that recycling into my house. Sad to see all that journalistic talent at the O subordinated to the Living section mentality.

Sunday, September 18, 2005 12:46:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Two things happen every time a newspaper redesigns:

1) Everyone who has been complaining forever about what crap the paper is gets livid that it's been tampered with;

2) It takes at least three months for the changes to be internalized and either improved or abandoned.

You wouldn't review a restaurant based on a single meal at the first seating on the first night it was open for business. Likewise, it's tough to say how wholesale changes affect a daily newspaper that hasn't had the luxury of ceasing publication to make those changes truly systemic.

I say size it up come Thanksgiving time to get a sense of whether it worked or not.

Sunday, September 18, 2005 1:28:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Oregonian hasn't "worked" since at least 1982 - it's not gong to start working now.

Sunday, September 18, 2005 1:54:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

All the mass media does is tell us what the competition is, who we are supposed to hate and go kill. People in the mass media are all devils like that, worker and boss, and they don't say they are different. They stay isolated from living life in their concrete bombshelters and send out the message for all the low-class little people to fight among themselves. For some bleeding to lead with.

Sunday, September 18, 2005 2:33:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

why is the NEW LOOK OREGONIAN so unfulfilling?

I refer you back to my post (this thread) of Wednesday, September 14, 2005 11:01:48 PM


to save you time, this is what I said........

"look, the problem at the oregonian is at the editor level. look at who fills the highest ranks.

of sandy rowe and the four other people in the top editor jobs: only one was ever a real reporter. the rest of them are bureaucrats who have honed their political skills so they could move up the food chain, just like corporate types at any other big business.

many of the team leaders and assistants, i.e. mid-level managers, were lousy reporters. lots of them are asskissers. they manage up and kick down. they give sandy rowe what she wants. that is not the same thing as putting out a good newspaper.

no one has a clear vision of what the o could or should be. management lives in fear of offending a few readers publishing an edgy photo or story with real attitude. you can't make everyone happy. you need to cop an attitude and go with it. especially when your core customers are dying off and 20-30 years olds aren't refilling the ranks.

no vision + no balls = a crappy paper that tries to get by with a glossy marketing makeover. high definition? high concept is more like it."

i don't think the paper will get any better unless the top management is replaced along with half the mid-level editors.

on the other hand, i'd like to hear some constructive criticism. all i hear on this board are general comments about design, lay out and the absence of what you want.

would someone please list 5 ot 6 recent stories that reflect what you think the o did well and what kinds of stories the paper should be doing.

Sunday, September 18, 2005 6:25:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well, I think the stories awhile back about the Oregon State Hospital and the sexual abuse that went down there, albeit two decades ago, was what they should be focusing on. That series kicked the closing of the adolescent ward into high gear. Too bad that was the only one I could think of.

Sunday, September 18, 2005 9:12:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

>Does anyone really think this is on par with the N-word? get out of here

gypped is just as bad as saying jewed

you are an amazing idiot.
if gypped is ok here on this p/c correct blog, then you media types are just so full of crap its ridiculous the way you talk out of both sides of your mouthes. especially when it involves money.

your idiotic comment and the following are perfect examples:

perhaps that same convoluted reasoning is used by those morons at the oregonian who has to be oh so p/c and not publish team mascot names which by the way are NOT offensive to the majority of native americans, but never mind what natives think, the o will set them straight from their misguided thoughts.

but of course "winterhawks" is somehow different from "braves", "chiefs", "redskins", "seminoles", etc.

even a 3 years old child knows there is no difference between winterhawks and braves, chiefs, redskins, and seminoles. obviously if those team mascot names excluded by the o were advertisers, as the winterhawks are, they would somehow miraculously not be offensive anymore................

Monday, September 19, 2005 10:57:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

>We don't have an agenda on either side, we just report the news

then why didn't you "just report the news" about the retroactive nature of the tax BEFORE the election? why wasn't this reported on until AFTER the election?

that was my point and if your even going to reply, then at least address my specific point. your stupid generic replys may be ok for a mindless idiot (which you appear to be)

Monday, September 19, 2005 11:11:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

to you jack-offs at the "o":

stop littering my lawn with your tuesday foodday. there is a reason i don't subscribe to your worthless pile of crap newspaper.

continuing to beg for a subscription, which your genius marketing scheme of littering my property each week basically is, only validates the FACT that your newspaper is pathetic, worthless, and DESPERATE!

Monday, September 19, 2005 11:21:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The new one wraps smaller fish. The colored ink bleeds on the scales and fins before I get it home.

Monday, September 19, 2005 6:23:00 PM  
Anonymous splicer said...

Lars, is that you?

Tuesday, September 20, 2005 8:18:00 PM  
Blogger Christiana said...

Are you going to let us know when the new site is ready. I for one look forward to reading it.

Thursday, September 22, 2005 5:20:00 PM  
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